13:24:18 From Michael Bunds : Interested in the specs on the Matrice 210 RTK system. Dual frequency? Is the time-stamp system and processing software (e.g., interpolating camera positions from RTK data) well sorted? (Curious as to why 20 cm error/uncertainty). Thanks 13:24:24 From Joann Stock : where is the correct place us to archive DEMs that were made from SfM? Particularly if we want to publish interpretations of surfaces determined from these DEMs? 13:26:07 From Ed Nissen : OpenTopography! 13:26:48 From Ross Henderson : @Chris Crosby or @Keith Williams: naïve question: are the stationary imagery balloons in the troposphere over Antartica deployed by treaty nations considered sUAS? 13:27:51 From Einat Lev : Yes — mostly a Matrice 210 13:32:06 From keithw : Hi Michael, The DJI RTK system is very black box! It was initially developed by DJI only to hold the UAS position very accurately (for cinematography). They have since update firmware to tag the photos EXIF with the RTK calculated position, but even this has plenty of error. The fixed height pole for the base are built inconsistently, and even getting the value for this is questionable as DJI does provide it, it has to be physically measured. 13:34:17 From keithw : @Ross I could not say officially, but I would guess a little of yes and no. They do not go though the same authorization process as sUAS, and I think they are more closely aligned with the manned craft program there. 13:34:35 From Michael Bunds : Thanks @keithw. I'd gathered those bits from DJI. Can you PPK it against a non-DJI reference station? Hopefully it can be sorted, but lots of error sources! 13:36:03 From Brian Yanites : @Michael Bunds, yes, you can PPK it (we do it for the lidar stuff) 13:38:05 From keithw : @Michael and @Brian, I would love to know more of the PPK, I have read that yes you can, but have never done it; I am unsure of how to even obtain the raw data from the 210! 13:43:52 From Ben Erickson : @Julia Carr - Any issues with flying elevation limits and overcoming them? Mapping slot canyons we've run into DJI elevation restrictions. 13:45:15 From Sean Bemis : Consider exploring the methods in this paper for change detection from multiple photo collections for SfM. There's a book chapter in review using the method in the paper where we test the method in a few different settings. Feurer, D., and Vinatier, F., 2018, Joining multi-epoch archival aerial images in a single SfM block allows 3-D change detection with almost exclusively image information: ISPRS Journal of Photogrammetry and Remote Sensing, v. 146, p. 495–506, doi:10.1016/j.isprsjprs.2018.10.016. 13:46:04 From Ben Erickson : Thanks Julia and Sean! 13:49:19 From Peter Christopher Lafemina : Hi Sean, You may be interested in this article: Hanagan, C., La Femina, P.C., Rodgers, M. (2020). Detecting changes in crater morphology at Telica Volcano, Nicaragua from 1994 to 2016 using photogrammetry. Geochemistry, Geophysics, Geosystems, 21, e2019GC008889. https://doi.org/10.1029/2019GC008889. Looking at change in crater morphology using SfM. 13:56:07 From Sean Bemis : @Peter - very cool, I should point out to @Julia that I linked that article as it is specifically valuable for cases where ground control is poor or lacking - shows that photo sets from different times can be aligned together, then separated for dense cloud production - allowing the point clouds to be positioned and scaled together, allowing change to be detected without worrying about offsets causing problems. 13:56:37 From Ed Nissen : Brian, have you posted any datasets to OT? 13:56:46 From Rafaela Niemann : Hello Julia, congratulations for the presentation and the work. Could you pass on the article related to your research? Thanks! 13:56:50 From Ed Nissen : Would love to be able to compare a UAV lidar cloud with an aerial one 13:57:12 From Ed Nissen : Cool, thanks 13:57:14 From Joann Stock : is there a version of the drone lidar that can see through dense rain forest? Using full waveform or similar? 13:57:39 From Rafaela Niemann : Will these presentations be available after the zoom? Is it being recorded? 13:58:19 From Chris Crosby : @Ed Nissen: https://doi.org/10.5069/G95H7DDN 13:58:44 From Brian Yanites : Yes, there is a new VUX-240 that uses full waveform. Not sure on the cost, but it looks promising. 13:58:44 From Peter Christopher Lafemina : @Rafaela we are not recording this session, but will have the chat discussion nd the feedback form the next part of the session. 13:59:57 From Peter Christopher Lafemina : @Sean: Good point and method. 14:03:14 From Julia Carr : @Sean-- thanks for the article! We've done some work to re-process in that way (similar to Cook and Dietze 2019: https://esurf.copernicus.org/articles/7/1009/2019/). This also works at the patch/short reach scale, though we certainly run into computational issues for processing at the kilometer scale. 14:05:34 From Julia Carr : Here's the article: https://esurf.copernicus.org/articles/7/1009/2019/ 14:05:53 From Peter Christopher Lafemina : @Julia-Thank you. 14:08:23 From Bill Dickinson : Sharon, this is an amazing course you offered to anyone. Are you going to do that again? Meaning offering it again and opening it to anyone. :) 14:09:44 From Bill Dickinson : Understandable. :) Where do we get the material from? 14:10:03 From Sharon Bywater-Reyes : SERC 14:10:26 From BethPS : https://nagt.org/nagt/teaching_resources/field/designing_remote_field_experie.html 14:10:26 From Sharon Bywater-Reyes : GETSI 14:10:44 From BethPS : Remote Field Experiences https://nagt.org/nagt/teaching_resources/field/designing_remote_field_experie.html 14:10:59 From BethPS : GETSI https://serc.carleton.edu/getsi/index.html 14:11:23 From Sharon Bywater-Reyes : sharon.bywaterreyes@unco.edu 14:12:11 From Zach Hilgendorf (ASU) : Thanks Sharon! Could you please provide a link to the CloudCompare classification documentation you mentioned? 14:12:21 From Sharon Bywater-Reyes : yes coming 14:12:27 From Zach Hilgendorf (ASU) : Thank you! 14:12:36 From Sharon Bywater-Reyes : CANUPO Classification: https://www.cloudcompare.org/doc/wiki/index.php?title=CANUPO_(plugin) 14:12:55 From Sharon Bywater-Reyes : https://www.danielgm.net/cc/ 14:13:10 From Sharon Bywater-Reyes : CloudCompare has it within it now and the point 2 point differencing 14:13:22 From Zach Hilgendorf (ASU) : Thanks (x2)! 14:13:26 From Sharon Bywater-Reyes : :) 14:14:46 From Rafaela Niemann : Thank you, Sharon for your presentation! 14:14:50 From Sharon Bywater-Reyes : :) 14:19:47 From Julia Carr : Looks like we can only select one 14:20:09 From Cam Asher - GNS Science, New Zealand : same here 14:20:12 From Bill Dickinson : And what if you used it for professional work? 14:20:27 From Zach Hilgendorf (ASU) : I'm only able to pick one 14:20:35 From Sharon Bywater-Reyes : I just picked one 14:21:10 From Michael Bunds : education and research for me 14:21:13 From Bill Dickinson : Not using it for education/research, but for other things. 14:22:16 From Ed Nissen : Still have my old helikite! (Haven’t used it in years though) 14:22:52 From Christian Hardwick : low-cost quads and fixed-wing 14:23:03 From Ed Nissen : Not using it much anymore - we use a Matrice 14:23:06 From Roman Dibiase : ground-based 14:23:10 From Ross Henderson : Using secondary data from DC -8, other fixed wing and near space constellations of satellites 14:23:26 From Roman Dibiase : hiking down ridgelines 14:24:09 From Roy Widrig : Using Phantom 4 Pro to monitor shoreline erosion and flooding on Lake Erie/Ontario, restoration projects 14:24:25 From Cam Asher - GNS Science, New Zealand : Acoustic sensors 14:24:32 From Christian Hardwick : sensors: A, C, F 14:24:33 From Cian Dawson (USGS) : GPR; colleagues also use mag 14:24:44 From Cam Asher - GNS Science, New Zealand : ah yes, and mag 14:25:56 From Ed Nissen : It’s the more specialized sensors (B onwards, but especially B) where I think UNAVCO community support would be best focused 14:26:01 From Christian Hardwick : I'd love to chat with the sUAS gravity folks! 14:26:15 From Ed Nissen : (Anyone can do A) 14:26:24 From Ross Henderson : sail drones could drop a DAS cable, helically wound 14:27:46 From Michael Bunds : As an RGB-primary person, I think doing A with on-board dGNSS is hugely valuable. But it's expensive so is a place the community could help. How about an eBee Plus or two to deploy to map surface rupture and post-event deformation? 14:27:55 From Christian Hardwick : preliminary. MEMs for sure! thanks 14:28:19 From Ed Nissen : Good point @Mike 14:28:40 From Michael Bunds : Thanks Ed! 14:29:22 From Christian Hardwick : BTW- I'm a geophysicist specializing in terrestrial grav, em, thermal 14:29:30 From Sharon Bywater-Reyes : I can afford the basics but not the fancy 14:29:36 From Ross Henderson : access to pub;ic data from NASA, USGS, NSF 14:29:38 From Ed Nissen : All of the above, except for very basic SfM 14:29:43 From Brian Yanites : Other: time 14:29:50 From Christian Hardwick : Q4: A, B, 14:30:32 From Roman Dibiase : batteries 14:30:32 From Ed Nissen : Haha 14:30:37 From keithw : Over-sell of sensors that are not fully developed! 14:30:37 From Rafaela Niemann : In Brazil, in some areas of communities it is quite difficult to make flights, for example, due to violence and unsafe areas. 14:31:06 From Sharon Bywater-Reyes : Go UNC! (that's of Northern Colorado) (budget cuts for whole time I've been here) :) 14:31:10 From Ed Nissen : Governmental in my experience 14:31:12 From Joann Stock : recharging batteries in areas where there is no electricity 14:31:17 From Cam Asher - GNS Science, New Zealand : White Island has been off limits since the 2019 December eruption, and its 50km offshore, so no chance to access 14:31:17 From Christian Hardwick : DoD restrictions in Utah west desert! 14:31:20 From Einat Lev : Government — access to national parks, working with USGS/DoI 14:31:22 From Sean Bemis : Site specific - e.g., national parks, etc. 14:31:26 From Ross Henderson : regulatory are usually regulated bby FAA 14:31:31 From Tobias Fischer : flying drones in national parks 14:31:32 From Julia Carr : Similar: access to state parks 14:31:37 From Cam Asher - GNS Science, New Zealand : NAtional parks in NZ too 14:31:37 From Roman Dibiase : wilderness areas 14:31:49 From Joann Stock : lots of restrictions in the USA 14:31:50 From Michael Bunds : My university (surprisingly) has not inhibited sUAS activities hardly at all. National Parks and other govern. restrictions can be a big problem. 14:32:11 From Brett Carr : Many US gov agencies (i.e. USGS) are currently banned from using china-made sUAS (i.e. DOI) 14:32:11 From Sharon Bywater-Reyes : We have a protocol and insurance (even at UNC) 14:32:14 From Einat Lev : Working with USGS collaborators, and now they can’t fly… 14:32:15 From Joann Stock : increasing restrictions in foreign locations 14:32:25 From Michael Bunds : sticking strictly to line-of-sight FAA restriction is a big issue. 14:32:29 From Julia Carr : University seems very good as long as you have part 107 clearance. 14:32:43 From Sharon Bywater-Reyes : Vegetation cover - only have SfM capabilities 14:32:49 From Christian Hardwick : I second mike's VLOS limitation. 14:32:55 From Roy Widrig : Need variances for public lands (state), but unable to get them in time-sensitive environments (shorelines after storms, etc.) Hard to fly shorelines near high population (Long Island, etc.) 14:32:56 From Sharon Bywater-Reyes : All my training came from UNAVCO ! 14:33:07 From Sharon Bywater-Reyes : and I went to CSU drone school 14:33:07 From Sean Bemis : RTK/PPK training 14:33:21 From Sean Bemis : yes 14:33:30 From Bill Dickinson : First time participant, so just finding out about UNAVCO. Need to find out what type of training they have. 14:33:36 From Cam Asher - GNS Science, New Zealand : my pilots can't fly until they have a minimum 10 hours, but its hard to get them to ten hours if they can't fly 14:33:52 From Ed Nissen : Also check out OpenTopography for some great past workshops 14:33:55 From Bill Dickinson : Fantastic. 14:33:56 From Ed Nissen : (With materials) 14:34:22 From Ed Nissen : https://www.opentopography.org/learn 14:34:38 From Zach Hilgendorf (ASU) : Does UNAVCO have training available on standardized best practices and reporting standards for sUAS-based research? 14:34:59 From Sharon Bywater-Reyes : I can't emphasize how helpful UNAVCO and opentopo has been for me since I was a graduate student !!! (and they don't pay me, I promise) 14:35:08 From Ed Nissen : Hear hear Sharon! 14:35:42 From Bill Dickinson : I’m in charge of teaching my junior GIS engineers, so that works for me. 14:37:01 From BethPS : GETSI Field is midway down the main GETSI (GEodesy Tools for Societal Issues) page https://serc.carleton.edu/getsi/index.html 14:37:27 From Megan Kopp : Going off training for data processing, is there a best practice or any resources for editing SfM derived point clouds into DTM? I currently use Metashape, but it appears Sharon (or anyone else) may recommend CloudCompare for more accurate data classification? 14:38:06 From BethPS : Education workshop examples https://www.unavco.org/education/professional-development/short-courses/2018/field-education/field-education.html 14:38:07 From BethPS : https://www.unavco.org/education/professional-development/short-courses/2017/agu-education/agu-education.html 14:38:36 From Michael Bunds : @Megan Kopp - LasTools has tools for that, Chelsea Scott has worked with it some (watch for upcoming pub ;) ) 14:38:55 From Zach Hilgendorf (ASU) : Thanks, Chris! A lot of my research looks at geomorphic change with repeat sUAS collections in coastal dune systems and error budgets are so necessary here. Thanks for your response! 14:40:23 From Megan Kopp : Thank you! That is very helpful. I'm not satisfied with Metashapes recognition of vegetation 14:40:30 From Megan Kopp : This is very helpful thank you! 14:41:10 From Roman Dibiase : canupo can be very computationally expensive for large areas 14:41:11 From Sean Bemis : What concerns should we have regarding the LAStools licensed vs unlicensed functionality? 14:41:17 From Megan Kopp : Great! I am familiar with LAStools! 14:41:26 From Ed Nissen : How do the UAS-lidar folk classify their super-dense point clouds? Do the usual tools work? 14:42:27 From Abhinav Singhania : There is also open source PDAL tools 14:42:41 From Sharon Bywater-Reyes : CloudCompare and Canupo are open source 14:42:47 From Abhinav Singhania : https://pdal.io/ 14:43:16 From Rafaela Niemann : Would you have any suggestions for a tool for using hybrid point clouds (SfM and TLS) to identify geomorphic changes? 14:43:30 From Elisabetta D'Anastasio : A probably naive question on raw data archiving (from a non uAS expert): are the Unavco Data Archive and OpenTopography archive syncronized in some way (formats, available data, metadata)? and if not, are there plans in the long term to unify them? 14:43:47 From Sharon Bywater-Reyes : @Rafeala Cloud to cloud differencing in cloud compare 14:44:29 From Cam Asher - GNS Science, New Zealand : Has anyone experience with working with excessive amounts of steam (ie. volcanic vents, multiple fumaroles), makes things very messy and haven't had much luck with CC 14:45:05 From Rafaela Niemann : @Sharon thanks! but can you register the clouds in the cloudcompare? I did not get it yet :( 14:45:26 From Sharon Bywater-Reyes : yes 14:45:35 From Sharon Bywater-Reyes : you can align them and then do differencing 14:45:38 From Elisabetta D'Anastasio : nice, thanks @chris 14:45:52 From Sharon Bywater-Reyes : @Rafaela, I made a tutorial for this 14:46:15 From Cam Asher - GNS Science, New Zealand : I'll get the rededge out :) 14:46:21 From Ben Erickson : For the National Park restrictions we were able to fly for a major rockfall investation in Zion and they want us to refly in certain areas for hazard risk but pandemic postponed.. It took a lot of high level clearance but is possible. Here's our investgation report https://ugspub.nr.utah.gov/publications/reports_of_investigations/ri-281.pdf 14:46:22 From Brett Carr : Agree with Pete- I’ve used Thermal to see through plumes. Works for gas, can’t see through ash 14:46:43 From Kevin Reath : Have you had a change to compare the gas imagery in VNIR and TIR? 14:46:53 From Rafaela Niemann : @Sharon Seriously? Could you share it with me? :) 14:47:06 From Peter Christopher Lafemina : @Kevin NO. But would like to try this. 14:47:12 From Michael Bunds : @Rafaela we have differenced SfM and ALS using open-source ICP (run via MATLAB scripts) in a moving window implementation with really good success. Used well georeferenced point clouds. Chelsea Scott is the ICP expert. She also has a teaching module on using CloudCompare. 14:47:51 From Ed Nissen : Some higher-end instrumentation - not UAS-SfM, but UAS-lidar 14:48:04 From Sharon Bywater-Reyes : @Rafaela send me your email address 14:48:13 From Sean Bemis : Anyone using SLAM-based lidar scanners? 14:48:19 From Ed Nissen : Plus the tech support to fly it 14:49:06 From Rafaela Niemann : @Sharon my e-mail is rafaelaniemann@gmail.com or rafaelaniemann@ufrj.br Thanks very much!!! 14:50:58 From Rafaela Niemann : @Michael I try in python, but I have a many experience about matlab. Could you give me the Chelsea Scott contact? 14:51:04 From Sharon Bywater-Reyes : Just send my tutorial to you @Rafaela 14:51:32 From Christian Hardwick (UGS) : @sean for aerial applications? 14:51:47 From Bill Dickinson : Does this group meet frequently? 14:51:47 From Sharon Bywater-Reyes : #sent 14:52:13 From Sean Bemis : @Christian - aerial and/or ground 14:52:54 From Ed Nissen : I think UNAVCO would see success in phasing out the TLS instrumentation and support and replacing it with UAS-lidar 14:53:16 From Christian Hardwick (UGS) : @sean just indoor testing with a neato lidar unit ha 14:53:26 From Ed Nissen : Some! 14:53:56 From Ed Nissen : exactly 14:54:03 From Kevin Reath : @Brian if the scientist was trained to fly the sUAS, do you think there is a possibility of making this a one person job? If not, do you think there always needs to be a pilot? Even with less expensive equipment? 14:54:22 From Joann Stock : some locations will allow TLS based on tripods but will not allow drone flights (military bases for example) 14:54:32 From Kevin Reath : I mean a career pilot 14:54:43 From Ed Nissen : But most PIs would only need it for a few days. 14:54:43 From Sharon Bywater-Reyes : I wanted to add that the ground-based lidar dataset for my class was not nearly as rich as the SfM - UAV lidar would be awesome 14:54:52 From Ed Nissen : Maybe once or twice a year 14:55:16 From Ed Nissen : Hence, bringing in UNAVCO is more realistic than buying a UAS-lidar for most PIs 14:55:17 From Christian Hardwick (UGS) : @kevin I am a pilot and a scientist. Depends on how complicated the gear is. 14:55:26 From Michael Bunds : @Rafaela here is one of Chelsea's teaching modules that utilizes CloudCompare https://serc.carleton.edu/teachearth/activities/236866.html 14:55:52 From Christian Hardwick (UGS) : Always good to have a VO with the pilot 14:55:52 From JuanFD, UHouston : Depends on the regualations too... some operations require a Pilot and and Observer 14:56:39 From Zach Hilgendorf (ASU) : Turkey vultures have check our WingtraOne out before, but tend to leave it alone! They don't know what to make of a giant orange flying surfboard... 14:57:20 From Sharon Bywater-Reyes : @Rafaela the one I sent you will have overlap with Chelsea's - pretty sure I referenced that when I made mine 14:57:24 From keithw : True of all Polar work 14:57:32 From keithw : PIC+VO 14:57:45 From JuanFD, UHouston : Anywant want to share a non-success story ? 14:58:11 From Sharon Bywater-Reyes : sure! 14:58:14 From JuanFD, UHouston : a mission that was not sucessufly completed and why? 14:58:17 From Christian Hardwick (UGS) : Future workshops/webmeetings would be very useful for emerging tech and general information. Thanks! 14:58:31 From Rafaela Niemann : @Sharon thanks for you e-mail! I received here! 14:58:37 From Sharon Bywater-Reyes : crap ground control 14:58:42 From Sharon Bywater-Reyes : fail! 14:58:47 From Zach Hilgendorf (ASU) : Thanks to everyone! This was a very informative and great session! 14:58:54 From Ed Nissen : Thanks! 14:59:10 From Tobias Fischer : Thank you, everybody. Especially organizers and presenters! Very helpful - keep up the exciting work! 14:59:11 From Julia Carr : There is a mavic pro that is now owned by monkeys in southern Taiwan. 14:59:11 From Michael Bunds : We destroyed at least 5 old Phantom 2 sUAS, couple of cameras 14:59:28 From Christian Hardwick (UGS) : We had a DJI battery fall out at 90 ft AGL. P4P wreckage 14:59:31 From Rafaela Niemann : @Michael thanks for links! 14:59:59 From Cam Asher - GNS Science, New Zealand : a mavic enterprise dual under 20m of eruption debris at white island 15:00:10 From Roman Dibiase : Thanks all for a great discussion! 15:00:10 From Ed Nissen : Nice way to end! 15:00:11 From Megan Kopp : Thank you all! 15:00:22 From Julia Carr : Thanks all! 15:00:22 From Christian Hardwick (UGS) : Thank you! 15:00:23 From Michael Bunds : Thanks to everyone!! 15:00:26 From Elisabetta D'Anastasio : thanks a lot to all presenters and Unavco! nice SIG! 15:00:30 From Sean Bemis : awesome! 15:00:31 From Paul Nesbit : This was great - thanks everyone for sharing! 15:00:31 From Kevin Reath : Thank you, great session! 15:00:36 From Mariel Nelson UT Austin (she/her) : Cool stuff 15:00:36 From Cam Asher - GNS Science, New Zealand : thanks for hosting! 15:00:42 From Ben Erickson : Thank you for great discussion! 15:00:42 From Brett Carr : Thanks you! 15:01:02 From Sharon Bywater-Reyes : Thanks. Bye! This was fun